Mennonite Weekly Review

Comments

• Some of us employ common sense, our knowledge of history and the Bible in arriving at conclusions on legislative issues. In addition, our search and desire for truth enables us to minimize deception.

  I resent the implication that those who oppose the proposed 2100 healthcare legislation are prejudiced or biased. For Reverend Esau to then quote Luke 6:41-42 is humorous in the context of his comments.

  Is it too much to expect our elected representatives to read legislation of this magnitude before voting on it? And now we learn that $100 million of our taxpayer dollars are used to influence the voting of one of the senators whose support was uncertain. Remember we were promised Washington would become transparent. Integrity could be expected by Americans.

  Clearly, Reverend Esau is displaying his own prejudices and biases in a religious perspective.

  I am wondering if Reverend Esau would support Healthcare legislation that would fund abortion?

  - A. Dale Welty (nov 22 at 11:21 p.m.)

• John Esau is correct. He has approached the issue and not stated his position.

  This is the Jesus' way.

  BTW how much has been spent by pharmaceuticals and lobbyists to defeat the bill long before it was a bill??

  Study the bill before you oppose it. That is a non-biased approach.

  How many who oppose it have actually read it?

  - Les (nov 23 at 2:47 p.m.)

• It is important to note a change in my comments. The $100 million bribe was incorrect. It has now become $300 million. Bribery in Washington and is openly acceptable and is done without shame.

  - A. Dale Welty (nov 23 at 9:24 p.m.)

• Dale, I think you got hooked on John Esau using the health care bill as an example relating to many other issues, including all the "hot topic issues", the solidarity of the Democrats and the Republicans in the present Congress, etc. He mentions the health care bill one other time, but does not take a position in this article on the health care bill any more than the other subjects I mentioned or could be mentioned--baptism, war, keeping God's money, or giving it to those God cares about, but seemingly few other people care about.

  But to get to the issue of health care: on Dec. 10, 1948, the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, (adopted and proclaimed on that date, but never ratified by the United States), states, "Everyone has a right . . . to medical care . . ." That would be another example of what John Esau was writing about. There are many different opinions on that, but one statement over 60 years ago.

  - Les (nov 23 at 9:45 p.m.)

• Les, the UN does not trump the Bible or the US Constitution on healthcare obligations. We know about the $300 million bribe from the Senate Majority leader, but how many other government bribes exist that we do not know about in the 2100 pages of healthcare legislation? If this is such good legislation, why are bribes needed to influence votes? What is so urgent that this needs to be passed this year before the public has opportunity to review it? Where is the transparency Obama promised in his administration. As I recall, Obama was going to read spending bills line by line.

  If the UN declared 60 years ago that every person has a healthcare right, how is it that MC USA never took action to implement it for all within the Church body? What say you?
  

  Since you place a lot of confidence in the UN, how long will it take for the UN, liberals in government, science, media, academia, and religion to admit they got snookered, as climitegate now reveals? Where truth is withheld and freedom of information requests are denied, corruption and deceit will flourish. Again, those of us who employ common sense are rewarded for not believing the climate warming fabrication and related hysteria.

  Climate warming, healthcare and other government entitlement programs are fabrications based on fear for the purpose of expanding government and intrusion in the private lives of US citizens for the financial benefit of corrupt politicians and likeminded people. I appreciate the Tea Party Express and thousands who made their voices heard at Town Hall meetings and marches at the US Capital. Common sense at the grass roots is on the move and liberals display their fear.

  - A. Dale welty (nov 27 at 12:00 a.m.)

• Dale, you need to take a trip to the Arctic and see the melting yourself. Why do you believe what you believe and do not believe the facts?

  Since when does common sense trump the Bible? "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
  

  If you are rewarded, why the constant complaints?

  My Mennonite Junior high teacher said that when you throw a stone into a pack of dogs, the one who yelps is the one that got hit. Haven't most of the yelps come from you on this site? Will you answer my questions as you would want your questions to be answered?

  Climate warming or not, we still have 1 Thessalonians 5:16-22 and Galations 5:16-26. You and I need to follow these.

  - Les (nov 27 at 11:28 a.m.)

• Supplement: Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." For some reason he did not include "common sense". He never talked about common sense, nor taught it. He was guided by God and the Holy Spirit, not the politics of the day.

  As followers of Jesus, we are guided by our conscience which is guided by the Holy Spirit.

  Thank God He has delivered me from what I used to do--point out the faults of others. By pointing at them, I have 3 fingers pointing back at me.
  

  I want to build up the body of Christ. So I commend those who are giving their lives to Bible study, Bible teaching, and building up the body of Christ which includes helping those who are less fortunate than others. I don't have time to research much besides Biblical truths from cover to cover. I teach the Bible 5 or more times a week. I am much happier studying and teaching the Bible and worshiping together with those who are glad to hear the truth of Jesus.
  

  And my heart is overflowing with Thanksgiving and thanksliving and the words of appreciation that I receive from those who follow Jesus.

  - Les (nov 27 at 12:26 p.m.)

• Les, I dislike when I am misquoted. I never said common sense trumps the Bible as you suggest. Some people are experts in taking what is said, distorting it and then responding to the distortion they created. Further, I am not impressed by someone who publicly states they teach Bible 5 or more times a week as if that should make their comments more credible. You state, "I don't have time to research much besides Biblical truths from cover to cover", yet you can readily inform me what the UN stated Dec 10, 1948 and that Artic ice is melting. Yes, some Artic ice melts every year and later freezes. Where do you think the iceberg came from that sank the Titantic? BTW, reliable sources indicate the polar bear population is growing.

  You "thank God He has delivered me from what I used to do--point out the faults of others. By pointing at them, I have 3 fingers pointing back at me". I really don't see any evidence that you have overcome that as you continue accusations rather than answering my questions.
  

  I do take heart that there is evidence of doubt in your mind as to global warming. You state, "Climate warming or not, we still have 1 Thessalonians 5:16-22 and Galations 5:16-26. You and I need to follow these". It appears as if some of my comments regarding the global warming hoax are sinking in.

  Now my answers to your questions: "BTW how much has been spent by pharmaceuticals and lobbyists to defeat the bill long before it was a bill? Answer, I don't know. What is wrong in protecting their clients and protecting our freedoms? Why do you not also ask the questions as to how much has been spent by whom by those in favor of a bill, a bill that significantly expands the roll of government nationwide at tremendous cost? Why are you not concerned about the $300 million bribe using our taxpayer dollars to influence voting on the senate bill? You ask, "How many who oppose it have actually read it"? Answer, I don't know but probably more than read the bill who approve it. Les, your questions show your strong bias.

  Now, I am ready for your answers to all my questions, especially regarding the $300 million bribe to influence voting in the senate for healthcare.

  - A. Dale Welty (nov 30 at 12:10 a.m.)

• Dale, some answers. I apologize in advance for what might seem an overly blunt response, but your disregard for facts is appalling.

  1) On global warming: It exists. I do not know where you get your "reliable sources" on polar bears, but I am certain they are from the same lot that like to bury their heads in the sand on many other issues. Polar bear populations are declining. The ice cap over Greenland is melting year-over-year much more rapidly than the winter freeze can replenish it. The same is true for Antarctica, where the ice shelf is shrinking.

  2) On your $300 million bribe that seems to be your obsession. It does not go to the senator, it goes to the taxpayers in the senator's district in the form of medicare payments. Given the amount of pork that is pushed through on any given issue, and given the Republican penchant for pork and corruption demonstrated during the past eight years, you can spare us all the false outrage on this issue.
  

  The $300 million also pales next to the money that pharmaceuticals and health insurance lobbyists have spread throughout the house and senate to kill health reform. Dale, they don't want to protect our freedom. They want to protect their own profits, which quite literally have come at the expense of our lives.

  As for freedom, where was the outrage over the warrant-less wire tapping, the patriot act, et.al.? To be sure, I am disgusted that Obama has done so little to dismantle these encroachments to our rights, freedoms, and constitution, but the Bush administration pushed for them in the first place.

  Dale, I have but one question for you. Where do you get your news? What sources do you listen to? I get mine from the BBC, NPR, and the local paper.
  

  - Jim (nov 30 at 1:24 a.m.)

• Jim, I choose to respond to only one item in your comments.
  

  Nowhere did I indicate the $300 million goes to the senator as you suggest. If this legislation is so good for all, why is taxpayer money going to the senator's distict to influence critical voting by the senator? Why should voters in the senator's state be given a break on medicare payents above other states? This means other states will not get a break, but instead, need to make up the $300 million bribe given to benefit the citizens in the senator's state. Is bribery acceptable to you in spreading the wealth?

  I look forward to your response.

  - A. Dale Welty (nov 30 at 10:52 a.m.)

• Talk about twisting words. Dale, I never suggested pork was a good thing. I merely question why you are so obsessed with $300 million in pork now, and not so much about the billions upon billions of tax-payer dollars in no-bid contracts and pork distributed under the Bush administration and Republican leadership. Again, spare us all the false outrage and petty hypocrisy.

  For that matter, where is the concern about the billions of dollars in campaign contributions the health insurance industry is distributing as we speak to protect is profits?
  

  Seriously, though. Where do you get your information?

  - Jim (nov 30 at 3:27 p.m.)

• Dale, do you like to misquote other people? You don't learn to know the Bible without soaking in it 5 days a week or more. Your actions speak louder than your words. It seems you have mentioned "common sense" more than the NT. Maybe that is just your turn of a phrase. You make a lot of false statements that you don't get from Bible study. You can criticize me all you want to about my Bible teaching.
  I did not say that I don't read or listen to the news. That is not research. I have read the 4 page Washington Spectator and its predecessors for over 40 years. It is concise. (I don't write that to impress anyone. My allegiance is to Jesus Christ, not to a political party or any other.) The Washington Spectator is seldom wrong. Often I read in the newspaper, or hear over the radio, facts that I had read in that publication days before.

  No matter how often someone distorts something, it does not change the truth.

  I never said or wrote that I "was not concerned about the $300 million bribe." I am concerned about the influence pedaling, the power and wealth that has controlled our government in Washington DC and state capitals for many years. It is the figment of your imagination, Dale, to assume that what I don't write is what I am not concerned about. You put your interpretation on many things. The neglect of New Orleans ever since the hurricanes Katrina and Rita is evidence of lack of concern about the poor and helpless in the USA. As I stated before, we should know what we are talking about. Isn't it common sense that those who write the bills know more about it and what it means than those who have not read it?

  My point on common sense is that you seem to refer to common sense more than what the Bible says about the poor, powerless, and unfortunate. A little more Bible study and discussion with groups will help everyone to understand Jesus better. The writers of the bills on climate change and health care are trying to help those that Jesus and the NT followers were concerned about. If that shows my "strong bias", I am glad that I have been understood.

  "Politics" comes from the same word as people. I am concerned about people, not the ideas of those who are making millions of dollars to birth controversy and distortions of the truth, if not outright lies. Remember Y2K? The issue was pushed by radio preachers and writers of books who made thousands of dollars stirring up a false agenda. Aenyone with a credit card expiring after 01/01/2000 knew that there was no serious issue.

  A little research does not take long. Check internet on polar bear population and Jim is right. "In the 1950s the polar bear population up north was estimated at 5,000 Today it is 20-25,000." In some areas the polar bear population may be declining, just as in areas the human population is declining.

  Search "Area covered by arctic ice". The area has declined in the past year and for the past 20 years has been below the previous average of many years.

  I urge anyone who reads this site to check on the internet about the issues stated or promoted.

  I'm glad, Dale, that you have answered a couple questions, even though you did not know the answers. I don't answer many of your questions because they seem to tend to ridicule. I don't think you have the answers and if someone asked them of you, you would not answer them. Some questions have no answers. Jesus had good intent with his questions.

  - Les (nov 30 at 5:05 p.m.)

• Second thought: Sorry, Jim and Dale, I reversed your statements on polar bear population. Dale, It appears that you have given a powerful demonstration of John Esau's point: "Opinions first,facts second". It is puzzling that you take a simple fact about teaching the Bible and twist it to fit your opinion. Most of your writing is your opinion, not facts. You seem to be bothered by quotes from the Bible. Your opinion was wrong that your "comments regarding the global warming hoax is sinking in." That is if you were referring to me. It is not a hoax. No site that reports hoaxes lists global warming as a "hoax".

  Facts are clear that there is global warming. There are "scientists" quoted not believing in global warming, but they are not the scientists that study the climate (climatologists). Check their credentials.

  - Les (dec 1 at 8:11 p.m.)

• Les- It probably does not matter all that much, but to clarify the record on polar bears: The numbers you give are correct; the polar bear population has recovered from its 1950s levels because of stricter hunting restrictions. Today, global warming is rapidly destroying polar bears' habitat, making their primary source of food, seals, increasingly difficult to find.

  - Jim (dec 1 at 10:37 p.m.)

• I should have posted this link on the last comment. Sorry. But this web sight gives the details on polar bears better than I can. http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/ask-the-experts/population/

  - Jim (dec 1 at 10:40 p.m.)

• Jim, you have given me your theories on increased polar bear population. From a common sense perspective, if the polar poplulation is too large, perhaps hunting should again be permited.

  According to my book on Advanced Conservative Common Sense Thinking, I provide the following for your consideration to explain the increase in polar bear population. First, it appears as if polar bears have a first rate private healthcare program where they are able to pick their own vets. Secondly, no abortions are funded by the polar bear healthcare program. Thirdly, there are no death panels for senior polar bears.

  Regarding Global Warming, it is now very obvious the hysteria promoting Global Warming is fabricated and flawed. In the past, opossing views were discarded and denied. Studies on climate changes indicate they are simply part of cooling and warming cycles as designed by God at creation. There is a lot of evidence that indicate we are currently going through a cooling cycle. Ask the people in El Paso who experienced very unusual heavy snow and cold temps in late November. I have read where evolution believers are also strong supporters of the current Climate Warming hysteria as a part of the continuing evolution process. This is flawed theory all creationists should doscard along with Darwin's theory on evolution.

  I am thankful Sarah Palin agrees with me on the Global Warming issue.

  - A. Dale Welty (dec 5 at 12:44 p.m.)

• A serious omission. I intended to include this in my last comments. The following is from a recent news item regarding the Global Warming fraud. "Two members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences have called on the group to take back the Oscar awarded to former Vice President Al Gore for the documentary "An Inconvenient Truth." That same year, the Academy elevated Gore's PowerPoint lecture, helping him to snag a Nobel Peace Prize as well. The academy members' request that Gore return his statue is happening as preparations are under way for next week's United Nations climate change meeting in Copenhagen, where 16,500 people from 192 countries will fly in using private jets, consume 200,000 meals, and produce an estimated 41,000 tons of carbon dioxide, roughly the same as the carbon emissions of Morocco in 2006."
  

  The UN meeting in Copenhagen is hypocrisy at its best as truth and common sense gain traction.

  - A. Dale Welty (dec 5 at 3:50 p.m.)

• Since most of what you just wrote seems to be directed specifically at me, I must respond.

  1) Polar bears: Nowhere do I argue that there are too many polar bears. Keep arguing with the straw men you create, though. It entertains.

  2) Global warming. Nothing to say here except for your production once again of a conspiracy theory with no evidence or citation to back it up. I have little reason doubt what you say about the carbon footprint of Copenhagen is correct. This does not, however, mean that there is not a problem. Nor does it preclude that the goals and policy changes of the meeting could provide incentive to decrease carbon footprint while minimizing sacrifices to current living standards. But, Dale, you are right. Let's stay away from looking at the long term and get caught up in our conspiracy theories instead. Pretending is more fun anyhow.
  

  3) Common sense and rationed reasoning... ...would probably be nice to see in your arguments some time.
  

  - Jim (dec 5 at 6:56 p.m.)

• Back to John Esau's article, "Opinions first, facts second", it is interesting the number of different terms he uses. Some of them: facts, belief, commitments, opinions, evidence, leadership, reality, perspective, biases, prejudices".
  No where does he imply that those who oppose the "proposed 2100 (sic) healthcare legislation are biased and prejudiced" any more than he implies that those who favor the bill are biased and prejudiced. His points are demonstrated in the way some of us writers in this column interpret what he said. I suggest we let him interpret. Just read what he wrote and not add interpretations he did not make. Then we do not show our biases and his points stand on their own merits.

  It is interesting that no one commented onHarry Newfels's letter in the Nov. 30 issue "Exploited facts. Harold adds some items: feelings, context. I add experiences.
  

  The way I read Harry, he very much agrees with Mr. Esau's "insightful column". In #5 he writes ". . .judgments are often based on the illusion of feeling and opinion rather than on the reality of facts-truth". #7 "It is puzzling that we well-intentioned people settle for less than the truth."

  Mr. Esau and Mr. Neufeld do not want to settle for less than the truth. We need to burrow through opinions, common sense, perspective, context, biases, and prejudices to get to the truth. In our current polarities, that is hard work, but it is God-work.

  - Les (dec 14 at 6:08 p.m.)

• Well stated Les, I could not agree more. Merry Christmas all!

  - Jim (dec 15 at 12:45 a.m.)

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