DownloadFeb. 8 issue
Reject ‘just war’
By Harold A. Penner Akron, Pa.Standing before the world defending America’s military misadventures, dismissing nonviolence and endorsing the just-war theory as the way to peace, President Obama — as he received the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo in December — undermined the examples of peacemakers throughout the ages.
Obama admired and scorned them at the same time, saying in effect: here are good people but impractical people.
Nothing is more depressing than the Orwellian notion that the way to peace is through war. Obama’s speech was a call to despair. Is Obama becoming a modern-day Constantine, who beguiled the early Christian church into renouncing the nonviolence of Jesus?
Jesus’ followers must insist on the way of nonviolence. We need to renounce the just-war theory. Morally flimsy from the start, it is now absolutely inapplicable because its conditions cannot be met. The firepower of modern warfare has made the theory obsolete. More so, it is inadmissible because Jesus commanded otherwise.
Rather than believing the president’s war rhetoric, we need to take up the work of making nonviolence more widely understood and accepted.
Comments
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I am wondering how Mr. Penner would deal with bullies? What would Mr. Penner suggest be done with Iran's recent testing of missles and his repeated statements to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth? If Mr. Penner really believes what he has written, I suggest he quickly journey to Iran and urge him to live with Israel in peace.
Would Mr. Penner suggest we eliminate all law enforcement officers in the USA because they are really not justified? Mr. Penner, was the use of force at Fort Hood justified in an effort to save lives?
Finally, Mr. Penner should read what is written in Revelation regarding eventual war coming directly from God. This is the same God who commanded Saul to go to war against the Amalekites destroying all men, women and children.
Where is Mr. Penner opposing the justfied killing of millions of innocent living babies in the womb?
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Dale, where is Jesus in your writings? He does not exist in your last writing. It is interesting that some people pick certain Scriptures and totally ignore what Jesus said.
Remember, he said, "Love your enemies". "If you love me, you will keep his commandments."
You want to focus on war in the OT. Do you keep the sacrifices? The feasts? Lev. 25:35-38? There are many commands of God in the OT. Why do you pick war to be God's only command that you quote in the OT?
The question is not what would Mr. Penner do, nor what Dale Welty would do. The question is "What did Jesus do?"
You seem to be more interested in setting up situations that seem an attempt at ridicule rather than displaying a showcase of the love of Christ. I don't read Jesus asking the kinds of questions you ask.
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Jesus had many opportunities to take issue with what God instructed in the OT. Remember, Jusus was God in the flesh. It was Jesus with a drawn sword who appeared to Joshua in chapter 5 prior to destroying Jericho in chapter 6. As instructed, the Israelites destroyed the city and all inhabitants except for Rahab. It was Jesus who stood with Abraham and discussed the future of Sodom and Gomorrah. He could have annointed Abraham to preach to those cities to repent, but he didn't.
God ordained government to maintain law and order in the OT and Jesus did not contradict it in any of his teachings.
Romans 13 is very clear that government is the minister of God, therefore what God has ordained should not be called sin.
When Jesus was hanging on the cross with the two thieves, he had opportunity to take issue with the government regarding the death penalty or the just death. If Jesus was a pacifist as some would have us believe, he would have exercised his 'pacifist' spirit by setting the thieves free. To do so would have violated what God had ordained.
Les, where are you in opposing the justfied killing of millions of innocent living babies in the womb? How can pacifists make such a big issue of the 'sin' of a 'just war' and then seem to readily ignore the murder of innocents. You readily overlook that in my comments to Mr. Penner which I expected.
What do you do with Ecclesiastes 3:1,3-8?
When you take all that is written in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, it is clear that Jesus and God are one, therefore Jesus could not have been a pacifist. I note Mr. Penner dis not quote one scripture in what he wrote.
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Dale, nonviolence and pacifist are not the same.
If you believe the first story of God's action in Genesis--the creation story, you should also believe the first mention by God about killing--"Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground . . . You will be a restless wanderer on the earth. . . Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him (Implied--from his wanderings) would kill him."
Adam and Eve sinned. They suffered expulsion from the Garden because of it. Why? They disobeyed God/Jesus.
The first mention of battle in the OT is Gen. Gen. 14:8, ("war" in 14:2, but no mention of anyone being killed nor that Abram's clan were involved except Lot was taken captive because he lived in Sodom), followed by v.20, ". . .God delivered your enemies into your hand." Then 15:7 "I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it." Then Ex. 14:14, "The Lord will fight for you; you need only to be still."Then Deut. 1:30, 3:22, 20:4. It is exciting to read these chapters and get the context and the mind of God. It is consistent with Gideon, etc. until the Israelites demanded a king so that they could be like other nations. David was a man of war, not allowed to build the temple because of it. The Israelites were taken into captivity for 70 years. Why?
When questioned about divorce, Jesus said, "It was not so (allowed) from the beginning." Jesus was concerned about the original commands of God/Jesus before they were corrupted by sinful people.
Dale, It was because of sin and disobedience to God/Jesus that the Israelites were punished many times and taken into captivity. God/Jesus kept his word as long as the Children of Israel honored God's will--God was their King. The same is true today!
I had written before that I oppose killing from the womb to the tomb. A careful Biblical theology will support that. But human reasoning overlooks much of what God commanded. Dale, you object to Mr. Penner not mentioning one Scripture. Is that worse than ignoring many things God/Jesus said? The law and government for the Children of Israel was God until they insisted on a king, law and order on human terms. I prefer God's terms of government in the OT, NT, and today. When they took matters into their hands, they suffered. The same for us today. Joshua does not say it was God that had the drawn sword. The sword was not used. The same is true in Num. 22:23. Joshua 6:2 clearly states that the Lord delivered Jericho into their hands. It is really best to read all of what the Bible says. Yes, all was destroyed, but only after God gave the king of Jericho and his fighting men into the hands of the Children of Israel. I do with Ecc. 3:1 the same as 3:2, 3:3-8 as I do with the rest of the Bible. I don't take two words from that and go out to "kill" and to "war". Dale, what do you do with all the other words in those verses? And what do you do with Lev. 26? Which is best? Take the whole Bible, or your human, cultural reasoning? I will take God's word rather than the political empire of today.
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Les, in my first comments regarding Mr. Penner's article, I had addressed some specific items which you chose to ignore. It is obvious that you, as a pacifist, struggle with these specific items in my original comments.
Further, I did not say the sword was used by the Jesus standing by Joshua in chapter 5. Joshua knew it was God in the flesh, because he fell down and worshiped. In addition, Jesus instructed Joshua to take off his sandals because it was holy ground.
In Joshua 6:21 regarding the destruction of Jericho, it reads as follows: "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass with the edge of the sword". God destroyed Jericho's protective wall that enabled the Israelites to then "destroy all that was in the city" God could have destroyed all that was in the city when he destroyed the wall, but instead left that to the Israelite people. In simple terms, God 'delivered' the city to Israel for the knock out blow. He could have destroyed Jericho and all the inhabitants, and then immediately rebuilt it, by his spoken word, to be possesed by the Israelites.
A companion verse is in Deuteronomy 7:2. Speaking of the seven heathen nations that possessed the promised land, God says: "And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; THOU SHALT SMITE THEM and UTTERLY DESTROY THEM; thou shalt make no convenant with them, nor show no mercy unto them". God did not say, stand back and watch me destoy them with fire from Heaven as I did with Sodom and Gomorrah.
I repeat, Jesus was not a pacifist, did not teach pacifism nor is pacifism taught anywhere in the Bible. I recommend that both you and Mr. Penner read, with an open mind, John R. Mumaw's booklet, NONRESISTANCE AND PACIFISM, published by Mennonite Publishing House.
Peace is not the absence of trouble, but rather it is the presence of God. That is why all international criminals are deceived by Satan into thinking this time they will be successful in their efforts. That is why, based on history, they have no fear of pacifists.
Jesus said to his followers in John 14:27, Peace I leave with you, not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid". If pacifism was high on Jesus' agenda, He would have made an early journey to the govenor's office for a summit to implement this as a direct message from God.
Les, thanks for the teaching opportunity.
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Dale, you have some interesting interpretations, but I let the Bible speak for itself. You have a lot of "if"s as though you know the mind of Christ and speak for Christ.
You seem defensive about what you did not say, but you write lot about what Christ did not say or do. Is there a disconnect?
I do not have a flat Bible. "New" has some meaning in regards to the NT. Jesus came to "fulfill the law and the prophets", not to repeat all of them. The NT supercedes the OT. It does not comment on every OT law, (incidentally, you do not comment on every item of other writers. You "cherry pick" from the Bible and other writings on this site.)such as stoning one caught in adultery, leaving the ground fallow every 7th year, keeping feasts, etc. Check into Christ's mission again in Luke 4:18 and the two greatest commandments. That is what I focus on. You and I disagree on Biblical interpretation and I will waste no more time in responding.
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Les, I need one last comment before you sign off. The following are non Bible, therefore Bible interpretation is not required.
In your Feb 5 comments you state "nonviolence and pacifist are not the same." I am especially interested in knowing the difference between nonviolence and pacifism from your perspective.
Mr. Penner states "Jesus’ followers must insist on the way of nonviolence."
I would appreciate your clarification of what appears to be a contradiction in thinking between you and Mr. Penner. Mr. Penner's statement is in the 'just war' context. Perhaps that makes a difference. If so what is it?
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